Episode 4
Working during a Genocide with Jannah Bachrouche
In this episode, Serena hosts Jannah Bachrouche, founder and CEO of Herc HR, for a deep and poignant conversation on the intersection between our daily work, ethical leadership and the ongoing genocide in Palestine. This episode delves into the emotional and professional challenges faced by everyone during times of extreme conflict, focusing on personal reflections, decolonization of the mind, and finding purpose. Serena and Jannah discuss the difficulties of returning to work while witnessing a genocide, how to hold space for one's emotional realities, and the importance of community and solidarity in these trying times.
- Jannah's Linkedin
Transcript
Coming back to work is so interesting when you're watching
Speaker:a genocide be live streamed.
Speaker:No human is built for that.
Speaker:Today I'm with Jannah Bachrouche, founder and CEO of Herc HR, and we are going
Speaker:to discuss the intersection between.
Speaker:HR leadership, our work, and what is happening in Palestine.
Speaker:Thank you so much for being here with me.
Speaker:We have a really big topic to tackle together today, to say the
Speaker:least, but I'm really happy to being able to do that with you.
Speaker:So the first question that I want to ask you is how can we go back to
Speaker:work every day knowing that there is a genocide happening the same time?
Speaker:Well, yeah, it's a very dense topic and I, uh, as I think we talked about
Speaker:before, I don't think we'll be able to get through all of it, but we'll get through,
Speaker:we'll at least start the conversation.
Speaker:But I feel like coming back to work means a lot of things for different people.
Speaker:I think for us in hr, I. It holds a different, let's say, exercising of
Speaker:a specific muscle, because I feel like as HR people, we are extending
Speaker:a lot more emotional energy than I would say someone who's a software
Speaker:engineer, you know, doing valuable work, coding, et cetera, et cetera, where
Speaker:maybe they're not as people facing.
Speaker:And so I feel like coming back to work for me as an HR and people leader means
Speaker:something very different to someone else.
Speaker:And so I just wanted to give context to that.
Speaker:But I think coming back to work for me varies because I think
Speaker:sometimes just showing up and logging in and answering four or
Speaker:five emails is coming back to work.
Speaker:And then sometimes I think coming back to work is taking a half
Speaker:day if I'm feeling really down or I'm feeling really depleted.
Speaker:I also think coming back to work is.
Speaker:Maybe I don't do so many work calls, and maybe I just focus on
Speaker:more heads down, non-interactive work, non emotionally taxing work.
Speaker:So I could go on with a long list, but I think it can really differ.
Speaker:And I feel like for me personally, even today, after everything that
Speaker:I've been seeing in the news, all the videos, all the content that
Speaker:I've been absorbing, showing up for me today, coming back to work was.
Speaker:I did a lot of household tasks this morning, so I did some laundry
Speaker:and then I answered some emails.
Speaker:I answered some WhatsApps from a CEO that I'm looking to work with.
Speaker:Sometimes it's just the simple things, which for me today, I know I don't have
Speaker:a lot of energy, so I'm trying to be selective in terms of what being back
Speaker:means and how much energy I put out.
Speaker:And this is.
Speaker:We tend, at least in the western world, to divide the professional environment
Speaker:from the personal environment or what you're experience at work and what you're
Speaker:experiencing in your personal life.
Speaker:But the boundaries are so blurred right now, and what is happening to me is that
Speaker:I can, I'm not able to disconnect fully, even if I'm focusing on task for work.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think especially in the Western world where let's say work-life balance is
Speaker:already not something that is valued.
Speaker:Where like in Europe, you know, days X amount of days
Speaker:off is mandated by law, right?
Speaker:But even for companies in Europe, I still think that
Speaker:there's still an element of that.
Speaker:Your brain is always somewhere else.
Speaker:Your brain is wondering what's happening.
Speaker:Your brain is wondering if your family's still alive.
Speaker:Your brain is wondering if your house is still standing,
Speaker:even if you don't have any.
Speaker:You know, land or family in Reza or in Lebanon or in Syria or anywhere?
Speaker:Yemen, anywhere.
Speaker:I feel like it's still as humans, regardless of how you identify.
Speaker:I feel like if you are human and care, there's always gonna be
Speaker:an element of you that's sort of off wondering what's happening.
Speaker:And let's say we've all fallen victim, myself included, to just automatically,
Speaker:when I'm done doing a task, sometimes I just pick up my phone and I go
Speaker:to Instagram or I go to the news.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:I mean, do you feel like you have those sort of same habits where you,
Speaker:you know, when you have a moment?
Speaker:Sometimes it's not, Ugh, let me settle.
Speaker:It's, let me look at what's happening in the news.
Speaker:I don't know if you feel that way, but I certainly do.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:For me it's that, but also my brain is going back there.
Speaker:Even if I'm not looking to the news.
Speaker:I really feel a big disconnection between my life and what is happening.
Speaker:It's like living in two different realities.
Speaker:One that is going more or less well.
Speaker:That is my personal life and professional life right now, and one that is
Speaker:beyond any imaginable things, and I don't know how to reconcile these two
Speaker:realities and maybe I cannot do that.
Speaker:I feel like for me, when this has come up for me is.
Speaker:I have one client that I remember when the aggression in the bombing in Lebanon
Speaker:had increased significantly back in October of 2024, and I was glued to my
Speaker:telegram channels and the news, and I feel like I wake up and I'm beside myself.
Speaker:And then I log in and I have my weekly one-on-one with the CEO and.
Speaker:He asked, Hey Jenna, how are you doing?
Speaker:Sometimes I'm like, do I give him an honest response?
Speaker:Does he know how to handle the honest response?
Speaker:Because mind you, this CEO is a white, cis, hetero man who you know
Speaker:lives in Southern California and you know, doesn't have any immediate.
Speaker:Ties to the identity of being Arab or Palestinian or anything like that.
Speaker:I don't know if you find this with the sort of people that you interact with
Speaker:or you have interacted with, but you find who you wanna like test the waters
Speaker:with, with giving an honest response.
Speaker:Because I don't know about you.
Speaker:I feel like I have to be very calculated with who I give honest
Speaker:responses to, because sometimes.
Speaker:I feel like I want to have, give an honest response, but I don't know what
Speaker:they think, what they believe, et cetera.
Speaker:And I feel like that contributes to like that separation of who you are in that
Speaker:moment and how you're actually feeling.
Speaker:Yes, I totally get that.
Speaker:Uh, I get that with people I work with, but also with friends, to be honest.
Speaker:And also with people that I, I know that are in gas, of course, I don't
Speaker:know what to talk about with them.
Speaker:And so I am talking about work maybe, but I feel so stupid at the same time
Speaker:about talking about work, and we always talk about the elephant in the room, but
Speaker:here is, there is a genocide in the room.
Speaker:I don't think we are allowed to talk about it in the workplace.
Speaker:And uh, this monster in the room is becoming bigger and bigger and creating
Speaker:more separation between people.
Speaker:I feel.
Speaker:I completely agree, and I think especially like in the HR world, a
Speaker:lot of what we do is holding space.
Speaker:Sometimes we don't know how to do that, and I think that's okay.
Speaker:I think especially if you're talking to people who are in Gaza or who have left,
Speaker:who have fled for whatever reason, or even people who are in the diaspora like
Speaker:myself, I think there's no perfect way to hold space, I think, and it's hard because
Speaker:you want to, you want to provide relief, especially if you're talking to someone
Speaker:in za, you're like, you wanna know what feels supportive to you in this moment.
Speaker:Because I also just feel like that's how we approach, you know, situations
Speaker:in the workplace where if I have a grievance or someone, something
Speaker:happened that HR needs to step in and mediate or step in in any regard.
Speaker:I find it's just we're, we're constantly figuring out as HR professionals how to
Speaker:hold space and I feel like that for me.
Speaker:Translates very easily into my personal life and in your personal life.
Speaker:And so I feel like it's one of those things where two things
Speaker:can exist at the same time.
Speaker:Two truths can exist at the same time where there's so much pain that
Speaker:someone who you're talking to and and Reza is feeling and you wanna
Speaker:figure out how to best support them.
Speaker:And someone like yourself who's trying to figure out how do I. How do I sustain
Speaker:myself to allow me to continue to do the work that I'm doing in fighting
Speaker:for Palestinian freedom and liberation?
Speaker:And I think it's interesting.
Speaker:I was chatting to someone who starting a new project and you know, she's from
Speaker:Reza and her husband is from Reza.
Speaker:And it's interesting even just asking her.
Speaker:Hey, how can I support you right now, whether it's personally,
Speaker:whether it's professionally, what can I do to support you?
Speaker:And she was like,
Speaker:I actually don't know that I've thought about an answer to this.
Speaker:And so I just think that.
Speaker:Sometimes even just asking the question helps create that space, even though you
Speaker:don't have the right answer to figure out what space you wanna hold, whether they
Speaker:wanna talk about the weather, if they want to talk about work, or if they wanna
Speaker:talk about music or whatever the case.
Speaker:For me, I've found that just asking is also a powerful question.
Speaker:'cause I don't know that.
Speaker:People, especially who are in Reza or have left Reza, are being asked those
Speaker:questions as much as they should.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I think these kind of questions are important for them, but are important
Speaker:also for ourselves and for colleagues or people we are working with of
Speaker:in the sense.
Speaker:Et cetera.
Speaker:But because I'm curious to know how are you feeling coming back today
Speaker:after seeing all these images?
Speaker:Maybe I can also create a space for me and you to discuss about these things,
Speaker:to reflect on the impact on our, uh, professional life, personal life, and we
Speaker:can start building something together.
Speaker:That it's not existing right now, I feel.
Speaker:Yeah, and I think going back to work is hard.
Speaker:You and I have talked about the pain that people who are still in Gaza are
Speaker:experiencing, or people who are still in tine that are experiencing this and.
Speaker:I don't think it's ever healthy to compare trauma and pain.
Speaker:Of course.
Speaker:Do I think this is a genocide is certainly a, um, let's say an asterisk.
Speaker:An asterisk to, to this because of course, right.
Speaker:It's obvious.
Speaker:With that being said, I think we're all battling different things to different
Speaker:degrees and I think coming back to work for someone who inza, who just.
Speaker:Who just escaped an airstrike is very different than me coming back to work
Speaker:on a Monday when I've just looked at a bunch of really terrible images.
Speaker:Of course, both painful and I think I. Figuring out.
Speaker:And we all have different coping mechanisms too, right?
Speaker:Like I understand how trauma works and how it shows up for me and myself,
Speaker:and I think coming back to work is really freaking hard sometimes.
Speaker:And sometimes I don't wanna come in and talk to someone about, I.
Speaker:Know why their laptop isn't working because they didn't wanna follow
Speaker:instructions to restart the laptop.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Like it's just, it just feels very trivial.
Speaker:It feels very small and I think it's umming back to work for
Speaker:people who are still in Philistine.
Speaker:Whether or otherwise, I think is a different level of processing,
Speaker:a different level of survival.
Speaker:There is.
Speaker:Certainly still so much room for us as humans as we know, to continue
Speaker:to figure out better ways to show up for them, to help them come
Speaker:back to work on a Monday and.
Speaker:That can look very different to how I help myself come back to
Speaker:work on a Monday because we're both experiencing very different things.
Speaker:Both painful in their own right.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Just sometimes it just feels like the, the problems that I deal with are
Speaker:nothing, and then sometimes they feel like everything, I have so much I. I don't
Speaker:think curiosity is the right word, but I have a lot of curiosity to understand
Speaker:how I can show up even for you, right?
Speaker:When we're having tough conversations, how can I support you in those moments?
Speaker:In the same way that talking to the person who I talked to earlier who was from ZA,
Speaker:who had to leave, how can I support them?
Speaker:Come back to work every day, and even though she's a software engineer and
Speaker:she doesn't have as much people facing day-to-day roles and responsibilities.
Speaker:It's still hard for her.
Speaker:So I don't know.
Speaker:It's coming back to work is so interesting when you've, when you're
Speaker:watching a genocide, be live streamed.
Speaker:Uh, no human is built for that.
Speaker:And at the same time, there are also a lot of people unfortunately, are.
Speaker:Suffering for this genocide that are not in Gaza, outside Gaza, and
Speaker:that are working for companies.
Speaker:We don't need to name them.
Speaker:We all know them that are actively participating in the genocide, and
Speaker:I feel that there is a big failure from HR or the wellbeing things.
Speaker:DEI.
Speaker:In supporting people because it's really the demonstration that everything is,
Speaker:sorry, the world is bullshit, to say the least, because how can you come back to
Speaker:your work knowing that you are supporting a company with committing genocide?
Speaker:Oh, that one's, that one's hard.
Speaker:'cause I think there's.
Speaker:In some regards, it can be very nuanced because if you come across Palestinian
Speaker:who needed to find a job or someone who is an Arab like me, who's Lebanese, who
Speaker:needed to get their first client, not to say that this, my client was participating
Speaker:in the genocide by any means, but I would most certainly say that the CEO
Speaker:is not for Palestinian, Palestinian liberation and Toes the line very much.
Speaker:But I think for people who.
Speaker:Are part of companies, whether you're Palestinian or not, but I think certainly
Speaker:it holds a different, let's say, effect.
Speaker:If you are Palestinian, you are working for a company actively
Speaker:participating in the genocide part of it.
Speaker:It's hard because some people need to make a living in order to
Speaker:continue to create the wealth that.
Speaker:The Israeli state that Zionism is trying to actively remove and
Speaker:erase, but there's a level of dissociation that has to happen.
Speaker:And I think kind of what you were talking about earlier is there's a part of you
Speaker:that's not there, and I think that's what happens is normal human trauma response
Speaker:is you dissociate folks who work for companies who are actively participating
Speaker:in the genocide is the same thing.
Speaker:Now, do I think if you're not Palestinian or, or not an Arab.
Speaker:I think there's a, we can get into a whole conversation around privilege, right?
Speaker:Especially if you're white and you're American and you are very much presenting
Speaker:as white, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker:We can get into that nuance of the conversation, but I think it is even
Speaker:harder to come back to work, not even just on a day to day or a month by month basis,
Speaker:I would argue on a minute by minute basis.
Speaker:For some folks, I understand that it's a means of survival.
Speaker:Especially for people who are Palestinian, who need to make a living, who send
Speaker:money back to their family in Palestine or trying to build generational wealth.
Speaker:So I think it's a level of coming back to work that I feel like
Speaker:really creates that dissociation in order for you to survive and.
Speaker:I can understand that to a certain extent, and I know for some people they
Speaker:may not agree with it and I can, there's also space for that conversation too.
Speaker:You can understand something and not agree with it, but I understand survival
Speaker:and for Palestinians, that's what they care about at this point, and I get it.
Speaker:It's also.
Speaker:For me, I don't want to judge anyone because I'm also there maybe using things
Speaker:that then I discovered they're not good.
Speaker:So it's really not from a place of judgment, but it's more from a place
Speaker:of empathy, from a place of really.
Speaker:Seeing them and and seeing their struggle.
Speaker:That is a silent struggle right now because come on, you
Speaker:are working in a big company.
Speaker:You are successful.
Speaker:But I think for a lot of us, what is happening is also.
Speaker:Forcing us to redefine our purpose of our values.
Speaker:What is important for us, and I have not found the answer for myself yet, so
Speaker:it's more a reflection that I want to do with you, is how can we refine our
Speaker:purpose, our search for meaning in a moment where everything seems meaningless.
Speaker:It is so easy to feel powerless or hopeless where this idea of
Speaker:the less is really in the room.
Speaker:I have struggled with this for.
Speaker:A whole host of reasons in my entire life being Lebanese, growing up in the
Speaker:us, being Muslim, growing up in the US in a post nine 11 world, being queer
Speaker:and being Muslim and being Lebanese.
Speaker:The trifecta, if you all, I find that like, it's like you said, there's no
Speaker:perfect answer, but I do think that I would probably say on a. Three or
Speaker:four times a week I would call my dad just because I was beside myself
Speaker:of something that I saw, or I was feeling a certain way about something
Speaker:that I read or something that I saw.
Speaker:And my dad, who grew up in Lebanon and has, is no, not, had not been
Speaker:immune to Zionism, to Zionist racism.
Speaker:And I will, every single time I talk to him, he tells me, Jenna ha.
Speaker:Binti, my daughter.
Speaker:He's like, Zionism is built to exhaust you.
Speaker:Zionism is built to deflate you.
Speaker:Zionism is built to make you feel like there's nothing you can do.
Speaker:Zionism is built to obliterate hope, and he said The moment that you lose hope,
Speaker:the moment you lose faith, they have won.
Speaker:And I know it may seem very like woo woo to some people, but for
Speaker:me, he also really, my dad really encouraged me to find my role in this.
Speaker:And it was hard because I didn't know at the time I was trying to grow my business,
Speaker:I had lost some potential clients because they found out I was Lebanese.
Speaker:And it's been a journey.
Speaker:But every single time he says, the moment that you lose faith.
Speaker:They will win.
Speaker:You have to find your purpose in this.
Speaker:He said it could be through work, it could be through community personal stuff.
Speaker:It could be if you can find a combination of all of them, that's the dream.
Speaker:But he said you can't give up hope because that is what this racist,
Speaker:apartheid entity is built to do.
Speaker:And it is, of course, again, nuance.
Speaker:So much easier for me to feel that because I'm not there.
Speaker:So it's like I, we need to also make sure we hold space for
Speaker:people who are experiencing it, where it's not nearly as easy.
Speaker:It is an absolute privilege for me to be able to take this, even
Speaker:think about this perspective.
Speaker:A lot of it just starts with hope, and I think figuring out how to get that hope,
Speaker:I think is a journey in and of itself.
Speaker:So, I don't know.
Speaker:Serena, from your perspective, what parts of your day to day give you hope?
Speaker:I have had to figure out the parts that give me hope.
Speaker:And the parts that give me faith in my day to day.
Speaker:Personally, two things right now.
Speaker:The ability to talk with people that are in Gaza that are, uh, more than
Speaker:colleagues are their friends right now.
Speaker:Be curious about the situation, but not just following the news.
Speaker:Really be curious about.
Speaker:Their life, their experience, who they are as people, what are their
Speaker:stories and other things that is giving me hope is supporting finding jobs.
Speaker:That sounds maybe crazy because there is this idea that you cannot hire someone
Speaker:from Gaza, for example, but actually they're really looking for opportunities.
Speaker:They're going above and beyond to.
Speaker:To work and they are really with top-notch expertise and really
Speaker:great problem solvers, to say the least, and really committed.
Speaker:And so what is giving me hope is allow spaces for them, share their
Speaker:stories, talk with them, and, and create opportunities for them.
Speaker:I'm glad that you're pointing out also very specific things because I feel I've
Speaker:experienced this more times than I can even count where, and especially when I'm
Speaker:in group calls with, you know, people who think like me and we wanna kind of figure
Speaker:this out and fight for it all the same.
Speaker:It's so overwhelming because you're combining pain and emotion
Speaker:and trying to problem solve.
Speaker:And there's just so many things that we all wanna do and I think.
Speaker:A Zionist or organized, not anything.
Speaker:And so it's like how do we figure out, and I think we're making the right steps.
Speaker:I think there are organizations like Tech for Palestine, you know,
Speaker:organizing and figure out how to do the, provide opportunities
Speaker:to people in a systematic way.
Speaker:Even when I think about this new project that I am putting
Speaker:together to help with this sort of employment opportunity for people is.
Speaker:How can I assemble a group of people who feel passionately?
Speaker:But we all have different purposes.
Speaker:We all have different strengths.
Speaker:Instead of us all trying to do 10 million different things that we are still
Speaker:valid to do, but it's just so much.
Speaker:And as humans, oh my gosh, watching a genocide, we wanna do everything
Speaker:we possibly can to make it better.
Speaker:I think that really sitting in the areas, especially that
Speaker:you've identified Serena just.
Speaker:Areas of purpose and the ways that you can help and support and provide value.
Speaker:And because think about it, like you trying to help people in Reza find work.
Speaker:Zionists don't want that.
Speaker:They don't want that at all.
Speaker:They actively are fighting against it.
Speaker:Even that is an act resistance.
Speaker:I think if we find the ways that we can resist.
Speaker:For me existing is resistance for Palestinians.
Speaker:Existing is resistance.
Speaker:And I think finding the ways to resist you put that all into a puzzle.
Speaker:I think of things like this as puzzle pieces, right?
Speaker:The whole is the sum of its parts.
Speaker:I forget what psychologists said it, but it's, I think it was Piaget.
Speaker:I could be wrong though.
Speaker:Don't quote me.
Speaker:Um, but I really believe that finding.
Speaker:Purpose.
Speaker:And I feel like the more that you continue to find that purpose, the more
Speaker:energy you get to continue to find more and more and more and more purpose.
Speaker:Because I really think it's a battle between energy, finding
Speaker:purpose and keeping faith.
Speaker:And I feel like once you kind of have that triangle down, let's say a more
Speaker:sustainable way of operating versus doom scrolling and all of that stuff.
Speaker:But I think it's powerful to talk to people in Gaza, hear
Speaker:their stories, their experiences, because I agree, news is a very.
Speaker:It can be informing, but it's, for some people, it's not what their
Speaker:realities are and finding, giving them space, which Palestinians don't
Speaker:usually have spaces for them to exist, let alone talk about their stories.
Speaker:Like, holy crap, like this is you talking to these people are.
Speaker:It is an act of resistance.
Speaker:And so I think like leaning into that and gaining energy out of that
Speaker:will only continue to allow you to come back to work every day.
Speaker:And I know how easy it is to, to feel absolutely crappy about.
Speaker:Witnessing in a genocide.
Speaker:What is happening for me personally is the connection between freeing Palestine with
Speaker:freeing myself, meaning that I'm starting to do a lot of reflection about the things
Speaker:that were trapping me, like colonialism, mindset, and Europe, European things
Speaker:related to what is right or wrong things about societal expectation about mindset.
Speaker:Things related.
Speaker:What means to have success in the Western world and what
Speaker:means to have success for me?
Speaker:And so I really feel that fighting for free Palestine.
Speaker:It could be also a way to free yourself from a lot of things that
Speaker:are oppressing you and you don't realize that are oppressing you.
Speaker:That I feel like could be five episodes in of itself.
Speaker:I mean, yeah, I mean, I think
Speaker:decolonizing my mind and my body has been.
Speaker:My whole life for so many reasons, and I think that Palestine is, I don't know
Speaker:how I, I, I've gone back and forth with how I feel about this expression of
Speaker:like, Palestine is freeing the world.
Speaker:At the same time, I absolutely hate the cost that it's coming at.
Speaker:I also feel, so, I don't know if like happy, if just feels like a
Speaker:weird thing to say, but it's freeing to see people starting to question.
Speaker:Certainly the us, which has been under this really great veil and mask.
Speaker:Well for some for so long, and I feel like freeing yourself.
Speaker:It's hard.
Speaker:Let's say for people who are not actively trying to free themselves, you hit a
Speaker:point where you're only going to be able to show up to a certain degree
Speaker:for Palestinians, because if you're not working to decolonize yourself,
Speaker:then how much can you actually.
Speaker:Work to Decolonize, Palestine and Palestinians.
Speaker:And so in the same way that I think about it in relationships, right, for
Speaker:someone who has a lot of trauma shows up and to some degrees, it's hard for that
Speaker:person to show up for you as a friend if they haven't worked on their trauma
Speaker:in the same way that like decolonizing myself, to be honest with you.
Speaker:I've separated my queerness, my muslimness, and my arabness my
Speaker:entire life as a way of survival.
Speaker:And it wasn't until I started to deconstruct that, that
Speaker:I was actually able to.
Speaker:Start to decolonize my mind and thus show up in these spaces, in spaces
Speaker:with Palestinians, in spaces with other Lebanese people the best way I can.
Speaker:And no one's gonna have it figured out.
Speaker:No one's gonna be a hundred percent decolonized.
Speaker:This world is not built for that.
Speaker:But if you understand that, it's a process and you need to continue
Speaker:that process no matter what.
Speaker:Otherwise, we will continue to perpetuate these systems of oppression.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:Holy crap.
Speaker:That statement, Serena, is a series in and of itself of how to decolonize your mind,
Speaker:and then in the context of the workplace as an HR professional where HR is, whew.
Speaker:Still a very colonized industry, like, holy crap.
Speaker:That's a dense one.
Speaker:Waiting for the next episode, but do you have any final advice or suggestion
Speaker:for people who are not in Palestine, but they are affected by the situation on how
Speaker:to deal emotionally and professionally with the impact of what is happening?
Speaker:Ooh.
Speaker:I think first and foremost.
Speaker:Always looking inward is a great place to start, and I think looking
Speaker:inward can mean a lot of different things, but I would say beyond that,
Speaker:community is really big and I feel like that's something people say a lot is
Speaker:community helps a lot, which it does.
Speaker:I just think that finding people.
Speaker:Which I think having podcasts like this will help bring to light people,
Speaker:especially if you're in the HR world, but certainly people who are in the
Speaker:workplace trying to exist, trying to navigate right now, finding people.
Speaker:Like us where we can have these spaces to have these discussions because I
Speaker:feel 10 times more energized having conversations with people like you
Speaker:and people who need support, who are still trying to figure that out.
Speaker:I feel like community is really powerful.
Speaker:We need to find a way to make sure that.
Speaker:As many people know about this as possible because I feel like we need to bring
Speaker:all of these people out of the shadows.
Speaker:They exist, but they exist a lot in the shadows.
Speaker:And so I think just building awareness that people like us exist.
Speaker:People like the community of Tech for Palestine exists in tech for
Speaker:Palestine, has a lot like tap all of these, mentor, apricot, all
Speaker:of these different organizations.
Speaker:And then I would also say for me personally.
Speaker:I got very overwhelmed with trying to figure out everything all at once.
Speaker:Figure out everything all at once.
Speaker:It had the opposite effect.
Speaker:Didn't have as much energy.
Speaker:Nearly it depleted me.
Speaker:I think finding the one avenue to start with that you can.
Speaker:Renew your faith, renew your hope.
Speaker:Whether it's music, whether it's art, whether it's writing, whether it's
Speaker:listening to podcasts, reading books, work, like I just find that everyone
Speaker:has their thing to help them find hope and find purpose, and start with that.
Speaker:And I guarantee you that once you have more energy for yourself, you'll
Speaker:have more energy to put out there.
Speaker:Start small as much as we.
Speaker:Wish we could start big and solve everything all at once.
Speaker:Thank you so much for this conversation.
Speaker:It was really important for me and I am sure for other people to listen.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Thank you for creating the space again.
Speaker:It's creating spaces like this is an act of resistance, so
Speaker:I appreciate you creating and holding this space for me to talk
Speaker:as well.
Speaker:Thank you for listening to this conversation.
Speaker:Please feel free to share it and you can find all the podcast
Speaker:episode on I'm back.work.
