Episode 12

Treating yourself nicely, with Tina Dreisicke

Published on: 15th November, 2022

Serena talks with Tina Dreisicke, Agile Learning Professional, Coach & Entrepreneur , about how can we apply the Agile Methodology to coming back to work, the challenge of well being and practical advice to create a welcoming environment at work.

You can find more information about Tina here

Transcript
Tina:

My neurons have my learnings and my experiences from the past day.

Tina:

So somehow I'm a little bit different.

Tina:

I changed, I have different emotions than the day before I feel a bit different.

Tina:

To just understand that we are every day, a little bit, a different

Tina:

person is necessary to implement some changes at our workplace.

Serena:

Welcome to and back to day I'm having conversations with Tina Drake.

Serena:

Ah, già, il learning facilitatore coaching consultant with di scarsa o kiwi up.

Serena:

Lei ha già il methodology Tu coming back to work of creating

Serena:

human centric barman farebbe one.

Serena:

e in conclusione step stuxnet Psicologico Safety Network.

Serena:

Welles continuò.

Serena:

So we were discussing about coming back and creating welcoming environment.

Serena:

And would you like to share something about that?

Tina:

Yes, I would love to.

Tina:

And, um, When I first heard about being back, I was.

Tina:

Oh, no.

Tina:

What should I talk about?

Tina:

Because I've never went from maternity leave.

Tina:

I never had some longer health issues, but then I realized it's

Tina:

all about the workplace culture.

Tina:

We have feeling that this is a place where I belong, where I've.

Tina:

Been seen where my person is valued.

Tina:

When I grew up, when I was a little child, I heard my parents coming home from

Tina:

work, always in the bad mood suffering.

Tina:

And I thought, oh no.

Tina:

Oh no.

Tina:

When I'm getting older, when.

Tina:

School.

Tina:

And when I need to start working all the happy life will be over.

Tina:

Then it will be the same for me.

Tina:

So I thought, no, there need to be a different way to have a good work life.

Tina:

And this is why I got interested in all the topics of culture at

Tina:

work of other ways of working.

Tina:

I study design thinking and I realized no work can be totally different and

Tina:

very much about the person itself.

Serena:

And how can we use design thinking to do that, to

Serena:

imagine a new way of working.

Tina:

Yeah, that's a really good question.

Tina:

And it's quite simple and design thinking.

Tina:

It's all about human centered design.

Tina:

So we put the human at first and nowadays where, especially due to the world of

Tina:

talent we currently face, there is a tool we're just becoming more famous.

Tina:

People start to map out employee journeys, especially in HR.

Tina:

For example, we think about all the touchpoints and

Tina:

employee has in their yeah.

Tina:

Work life beginning, maybe from the first interview beginning

Tina:

from the first day at work.

Tina:

So how does the person feel during that time?

Tina:

And this journey can be mapped out during a long period or maybe just a small one.

Tina:

Comparing all these different journeys from these employees will help us

Tina:

to understand individual as well as common pain points and these points.

Tina:

These are the points of improvement, where from an organizational perspective,

Tina:

we need to design experiences for our employees, which make them

Tina:

happy, which make them satisfied.

Tina:

So people will stay with us and not leave and go somewhere else.

GMT:

00:03:24

And Do you think we are really

GMT:

00:03:27

able to do it right now?

GMT:

00:03:30

Or we are still facing some cultural resistance in some companies.

Tina:

we are able of course, and.

Tina:

We are still facing challenges.

Tina:

first of all, I think there are several.

Tina:

So the first one is from a leadership perspective.

Tina:

This thing is cost resources.

Tina:

This cost time, this cost energy.

Tina:

So we need to have a priority.

Tina:

To focus on this topic to really say, okay, this is a priority right now.

Tina:

We wanna focus on employee experience design.

Tina:

So let's do something.

Tina:

This is not something which I can do on top of my daily work.

Tina:

So there need to be better roles for example, or a longer project.

Tina:

The second one is from an employee perspective.

Tina:

I'm not used to be asked best questions when maybe I'm in a very traditional

Tina:

organization and people start to tell me, so please tell me, Tina, how do

Tina:

you feel during your first interview?

Tina:

What was good?

Tina:

What was bad?

Tina:

And then later on.

Tina:

Maybe I'm a bit confused and I'm afraid to tell the truth because there is

Tina:

nothing like psychological safetyness.

Tina:

So the culture is not ready though.

Tina:

I'm not able to open up because I'm not used to it.

Tina:

And maybe, I don't know how I felt during the interview because me as a person.

Tina:

I'm not used to reflection.

Tina:

I'm not used to ask myself these questions.

Tina:

So there are several challenges when we talk about this.

Serena:

And this is also a challenge with.

Serena:

Rise of burnouts because it's really hard, I think, to do prevention because

Serena:

not always, we have the psychological safety or the openness to ask the

Serena:

right questions, to open the space to say, Something is not working.

Serena:

And then we wait until.

Serena:

Something happened.

Serena:

Do you think we can do something in the prevention?

Tina:

Yes, I think so.

Tina:

Definitely.

Tina:

And therefore I would like to come back to my understanding of the phrase

Tina:

I'm back because for me, it's about dealing with change and as we all

Tina:

know, now change is the only constant.

Tina:

So basically every morning when I wake up.

Tina:

There is the moment of, oh, I'm back because I wake up as

Tina:

a slightly different person.

Tina:

My neurons have my learnings and my experiences from the past day.

Tina:

So somehow I'm a little bit different.

Tina:

I changed, I have different emotions than the day before I feel a bit different.

Tina:

To just understand that we are every day, a little bit, a different

Tina:

person is necessary to implement some changes at our workplace.

Tina:

a simple hack is just starting with check-ins in the morning with a team.

Tina:

Maybe once a week, there is leadership involved.

Tina:

So we just have 10 minutes, 15 minutes of how are you doing today?

Tina:

What's up?

Tina:

Tell me it's just about how do I arrive here?

Tina:

I can say it out loud.

Tina:

It's a learning process as well.

Tina:

These check-ins, they start usually quite formal, but at some point

Tina:

people will start to open up and then day by day, we will more have

Tina:

this psychological safetyness at work because we have it every day.

Tina:

It's a routine.

Tina:

It gives me some security and.

Tina:

For the leadership side, we need the approach of a servant leader.

Tina:

That means there is someone who's asking the question, Tina, how can I help you?

Tina:

Where do you need support?

Tina:

Where do you have some impediments, some challenges.

Tina:

This is for me, what good leadership is all about nowadays?

Tina:

And then, because I'm coming from the agile coach wall in the past where

Tina:

we talk about efficient teamwork I have experienced tension based

Tina:

work and I really love the concept it's coming from Holocracy where

Tina:

we have nearly no formal H piece.

Tina:

And the tension based work is bringing.

Tina:

Tensions, not problems.

Tina:

Tensions makes them normal.

Tina:

So we talk about them.

Tina:

So it's it's easy to have within the team attention backlog, where

Tina:

everyone is just putting something.

Tina:

What is challenging me right now.

Tina:

And then it's transparent.

Tina:

It's seen for everyone who is somehow involved with me.

Tina:

And then once per week, we can talk about how to solve the tension.

Tina:

There is a very structured way.

Tina:

I don't wanna go into too much detail, but these tensions can be clustered.

Tina:

So there is a space for personal tension.

Tina:

There is a space for cultural.

Tina:

So within my team, there is a space for governance tension.

Tina:

So that makes it easy.

Tina:

To bring myself as a woo person at work and to regarding your question that

Tina:

can prevent burnout because when I'm used to talk about everything, what is

Tina:

related to me, then people are listening.

Tina:

People can take care of it.

Tina:

Leadership can have an eye on it.

Tina:

So yeah, this is something what I really, from my experience can recommend

Tina:

for someone to experiment with.

GMT:

00:08:44

And it's really interesting for me

GMT:

00:08:46

because I see the connection between tension and intention, meaning that there

GMT:

00:08:53

is an intention to see those tensions.

GMT:

00:08:59

Would you like to say something about the importance of being

GMT:

00:09:04

intentional in doing this work?

Tina:

Yeah, for me, intention is very much connected to reflection

Tina:

and this is something which we should do more in my opinion.

Tina:

We tend to be busy all the time, because busyness is something which

Tina:

was related to, I don't know, you are engaged, you are motivated, you are

Tina:

smart, you are getting things done.

Tina:

but for me, Taking time to sit down, to reflect as much as guiding me to much more

Tina:

intentional work than just the busyness.

Tina:

We have so much noise all around.

Tina:

And when I say noise, all the distraction, all the push

Tina:

notifications, all the messages and news, and there is so much going on.

Tina:

So nowadays it's just important.

Tina:

To filter all that, to shut down the noise and to be able to concentrate

Tina:

on the stuff, what really matters to me and my work and to do so.

Tina:

and to do that with intention, we need these moments of maybe just looking

Tina:

out of the window, doing nothing for.

Tina:

Five minutes for 10 minutes, doesn't matter.

Tina:

But just having some emptiness in our head, in our mind using some

Tina:

breathing techniques, maybe for example.

Tina:

So this is helping to yeah.

Tina:

Bring intention to my work and to have more, I think then we have a lot

Tina:

better communications with our team colleagues, for example, because we.

Tina:

More able to have empathy with the other person.

Tina:

We are not stressed and rushing from just a to B.

Tina:

So we are more in our own center and our own balance and we

Tina:

can communicate even better.

GMT:

00:10:53

And this is connected for me

GMT:

00:10:56

uh, to the importance of rest and the importance of recovery.

GMT:

00:11:02

And we are not allowing ourself to create those spaces where we can rest.

GMT:

00:11:09

We can think we can listen to our bodies and we can recover.

GMT:

00:11:15

For example, how can I come back after a bad meeting, if I need

GMT:

00:11:21

to jump immediately to another meeting with all the stress on my.

GMT:

00:11:27

And without having the reflection on what went wrong in that

GMT:

00:11:32

meeting and this kind of things.

GMT:

00:11:35

I feel sometimes that jumping from one task to another, from one meeting

GMT:

00:11:41

to another, it's an escape to what is really underneath What do you think?

Tina:

Yes.

Tina:

I love that you bring up the topic and it makes me think of the current

Tina:

challenges organizations face.

Tina:

When we talk about office design, what do we do to bring back our

Tina:

employees to the office space?

Tina:

There is no need for me to go on a commute every day when I can do my work at home.

Tina:

The same as in the office space.

Tina:

But exactly about creating spaces, designing spaces for reflection,

Tina:

why not having an office space where we have, of course, some meeting

Tina:

rooms, but beside that we have rooms for maybe creativity sessions.

Tina:

We have rooms for down.

Tina:

So I experienced my past.

Tina:

Employer had a, like a space where we could have a little nap during lunch

Tina:

break, for example, and thinking about this, creating these spaces, redesigning

Tina:

our offices and making it possible for our employees to have a space to rest

Tina:

there and to have a space for reflection.

Tina:

That could be a great way to bring people back to the office.

Tina:

Actually.

GMT:

00:13:02

I agree.

GMT:

00:13:04

And also we can think about the spaces into new ways of

GMT:

00:13:11

creating deeper connection.

GMT:

00:13:13

I meaning that it's not just having a meeting, a physical meeting, but is.

GMT:

00:13:21

Exploring the time that we are spending together to create a stronger, more

GMT:

00:13:28

deep bond and create psychological safety and these kind of things.

GMT:

00:13:36

How can we do that?

GMT:

00:13:37

I

Serena:

dunno, it's an open question.

Tina:

I think there is not one way.

Tina:

I think there are several ways to do so.

Tina:

For me.

Tina:

I like to bond with people, especially when I don't know them yet.

Tina:

It's sometimes for me a bit weird to like sit down, having a coffee, it feels a bit

Tina:

formal, but I love to play with people.

Tina:

I don't know.

Tina:

And then during that play immediately, there is a connection.

Tina:

There is fun because you laugh together when you share some emotions

Tina:

it immediately bonds with each other.

Tina:

So for example, Cliche in some startups where there is a kicker table

Tina:

around, but it really helps to do.

Tina:

Team building, especially so maybe there are people just hanging out.

Tina:

So you need to have different opportunities, I would say so

Tina:

because we are all different.

Tina:

Everyone has so individual needs and favors different

Tina:

approaches of getting together.

Tina:

It's just great to have, not just one possibility to bring people together.

Tina:

It's just to make a lot of different offers so people can choose

Tina:

between the things they like to do.

Tina:

So maybe for some people it's cooking lunch together in the lunch break.

Tina:

So for me, for example, it's easier when it's just a small group of

Tina:

people to connect with them may in the beginning, just three or four

Tina:

people, it's much more easier for me.

Tina:

There is maybe seven or eight, then I'm just stepping back,

Tina:

I'm getting a bit silent.

Tina:

So this is different from everyone I would say.

Tina:

And just think about this is something what people can think of when we talk

Tina:

about employee experience design.

Tina:

So what can I do to make people bond?

Tina:

And ask the people, I would say, always ask the people first and don't

Tina:

hide yourself and think about it.

Tina:

Just do it together.

Tina:

It's a common approach from everyone in your organization.

GMT:

00:15:42

Giving ownership of the

GMT:

00:15:44

co-creation of the space.

GMT:

00:15:45

I love that, but I have a question.

GMT:

00:15:49

Do you think we are allowing ourself to take ownership of our own

GMT:

00:15:56

space when we are working at home.

GMT:

00:15:59

Meaning that, do you think we are creating our own space at home that

GMT:

00:16:06

is aligned with our real needs?

GMT:

00:16:09

Or we are thinking, oh, I just need a table, a laptop phones.

GMT:

00:16:15

And I'm good.

Tina:

I think it's different.

Tina:

I just can talk about myself in the beginning.

Tina:

I was, I had Zal before COVID started.

Tina:

And then I came back in like when everyone already was doing home office.

Tina:

So I just said, In

GMT:

00:16:34

the

Tina:

kitchen on my table and said, okay how does it work?

Tina:

I have no idea.

Tina:

So will I sit here for eight hours?

Tina:

I don't know.

Tina:

And in the beginning it was just like that.

Tina:

So an uncomfortable chair, a kitchen table, and I didn't like that.

Tina:

People can see everything what's behind me.

Tina:

And yeah, it was difficult, but it evolved over time.

Tina:

So I think After a few months, I really sit down and I ask myself, okay, how can

Tina:

I design space for me room for me, where I feel comfortable working from home.

Tina:

It's not easy for everyone.

Tina:

People have kids, people don't have space and I did a lot of trainings

Tina:

during that time, the internet online.

Tina:

And I always told them.

Tina:

Try to figure out where you learn best in an online environment.

Tina:

The first training day, maybe sit on the sofa the next day.

Tina:

Sit on the, I don't know, sit on the floor, take a blanket on your back.

Tina:

Not just make yourself comfortable in a playful way, but we don't think about

Tina:

this stuff we need to, we need an input from someone else maybe who is saying.

Tina:

That doesn't need to be this way.

Tina:

We are just used to our habits.

Tina:

It's easy to not think about it.

Tina:

And when the pain is not as bad as it, maybe I can't sit anymore, then I will

Tina:

just stick with the chair, which isn't comfortable, but it's not that painful.

GMT:

00:18:03

And I have a tricky question.

GMT:

00:18:05

now, why do you think so difficult to take care of ourselves?

Tina:

I think the first one I mentioned, we love to have habits, so it's saving

Tina:

energy in our brain when we just do this stuff, like we always did it in the past.

Tina:

And the second one is.

Tina:

Maybe we should practice more self love.

Tina:

So we are not used to have some thoughts, like self-compassion,

Tina:

we tend to take care more of other people around us than on ourselves.

Tina:

And I recently.

Tina:

Read a book on self-compassion.

Tina:

I really liked it.

Tina:

I never had an idea that something like this is existing, even

Tina:

in a scientific environment.

Tina:

So there are actually studies out there which shows when you're kind to yourself,

Tina:

this is changing a lot in your life.

Tina:

And I would wish that this is something, what they have

Tina:

teach me when I was in school.

Tina:

How do I talk to myself?

Tina:

And yeah, I think we, we never learned.

Tina:

To say it like this in the end.

GMT:

00:19:16

any advice on how to practice

GMT:

00:19:19

self-compassion or self love in the workplace.

Tina:

Yes.

Tina:

So again, I need to come back to the point where I talked about reflection.

Tina:

So it's about realizing when I'm talking bad to myself.

Tina:

So this is happening just like unconscious.

Tina:

When I, maybe I I sent an email to my team lead and there is a typo,

Tina:

there is a mistake inside and I realized that after the email is gone.

Tina:

So then there is a little voice in my head, which, oh, Tina damn, you are

Tina:

always doing this stupid mistakes.

Tina:

Or Why don't you focus?

Tina:

You are so lazy.

Tina:

I don't know.

Tina:

These voice is coming all the time.

GMT:

00:20:04

I know all this voice

Serena:

is really well.

Tina:

Yes.

Tina:

this is strange when I realized it for the first time, this is not helpful at all.

Tina:

And I'm trying to be a good friend to all other people out there.

Tina:

I'm trying to empower them.

Tina:

But to myself, I'm not saying all these kind things.

Tina:

So now I start to observe myself during the day Which is a challenge because

Tina:

sometimes being busy means I'm not able to observe myself because I'm so

Tina:

focused on the projects I'm doing that.

Tina:

I'm not able to have these meta perspective if I'm just bad to myself

Tina:

again, because maybe I'm punishing in my head because I'm late with

Tina:

the deadline, something like this.

Tina:

So first thing is observing yourself.

Tina:

When is the voice coming up?

Tina:

And when do you

GMT:

00:20:56

talk

Tina:

badly to yourself?

Tina:

And then the second step, to nurture a second voice, which is coming and saying.

Tina:

Not Tina.

Tina:

Come on, hack yourself.

Tina:

Give yourself a hack.

Tina:

Treat yourself.

Tina:

Go for a little walk.

Tina:

You had a stress day.

Tina:

It's normal mistakes happen all the time to everyone.

Tina:

Take it with you more.

Tina:

It's not that bad actually.

Tina:

And yeah.

Tina:

Treat yourself nicely.

GMT:

00:21:24

can we say today to.

GMT:

00:21:28

To share some love to her.

Tina:

yeah, we can say that currently there are tough times to go through

Tina:

but in the end all will be good.

Tina:

Trust.

Tina:

Trust the process, Tina.

GMT:

00:21:44

And I can say to Tina that you are

GMT:

00:21:47

amazing and you are so generous with a kind soul and a beautiful mind.

Tina:

Uh, Thank you so much.

Tina:

I really want to give it back to you really you're so smiling all the time.

Tina:

I can feel your positive energy.

Serena:

Great.

Serena:

Anything else that you want to share?

Serena:

Before we close the conversation.

Tina:

Just in case you still have some time left, do your listener take

Tina:

a look at all the other episodes?

Tina:

I really quite insightful and it was a pleasure to be here.

Serena:

Thank you.

GMT:

00:22:24

So.

Tina:

Thank you.

Tina:

Thank you for listening to this episode, please share it with friends then needs

Tina:

to hear this important conversation.

Tina:

You can find more information in the description or on the website.

Tina:

pod.link/welcomeback.

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About the Podcast

I'm Back!
Returning to work after a life-changing experience can be tough. Whether due to illness, injury, maternity, or for any other reason, we can face a multitude of challenges.

Join Serena Savini as she shares her own struggles with returning to work, and explores ways we can navigate change with empathy, and emerge thriving.

Through conversations with guests, Serena uncovers stories from different perspectives on how we can create a warm environment with a human touch to come back to work.

Artwork by Sara Ronzoni (www.operegeniali.com)

About your host

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Serena Savini

HR Expert, Facilitator and Counselor, Serena Savini is the founder and host of the I'm Back! Podcast. For the past 15 years, she has been working in big organisations and in startups across Europe and US with a heart centric approach to Human Resources and Learning & Development.

She was born with a disability and she had an injury at work in 2016. Since then, she began to do a personal healing process and she became curious about other stories around coming back to work after a life changing experience.