Principled Hiring with Patricia Andrade

Patricia: 00:00:00

And I think showing your values as a human, I think it's very important

Patricia: 00:00:04

to raise your family in the right way.

Patricia: 00:00:07

And that's not something that many people agree with us, and

Patricia: 00:00:10

I feel sorry for these people.

Patricia: 00:00:12

I wanna be able to tell my daughter in the future that this is what mom stand

Patricia: 00:00:16

in the past and what she keeps doing.

Serena: 00:00:20

Welcome today, I am really happy to have a conversation with Patricia.

Serena: 00:00:26

Recruiter and co-founder of Principal, a recruitment agency for people with

Serena: 00:00:33

values who are looking for a job.

Serena: 00:00:35

Welcome, Patricia.

Serena: 00:00:37

What does it mean?

Serena: 00:00:38

I'm back for you.

Patricia: 00:00:40

Something more practical for people.

Patricia: 00:00:41

For example, it's my first advice will be to seek support to your tribe.

Patricia: 00:00:47

Choose your tribe wisely.

Patricia: 00:00:48

Choose the people you wanna be surrounded with and people who will be understanding,

Patricia: 00:00:53

supportive of these conversations.

Patricia: 00:00:56

You know, take for Palestine, for example, was, and it is a great support for

Patricia: 00:01:01

myself because, you know, we all from everybody in the world and it's a safe.

Patricia: 00:01:05

Space to talk about the action that we taking, to talk about the news that we

Patricia: 00:01:10

are receiving, and even to take part in amazing projects to help Palestinians

Patricia: 00:01:16

currently based in Russia in the West Bank and diaspora all around the world.

Patricia: 00:01:20

So I think that's the important part.

Patricia: 00:01:23

Second of all, I will say it's really important to come back to yourself

Patricia: 00:01:27

even after having a long day at work, taking part in these projects.

Patricia: 00:01:31

It might be easy to feel that guilt, and trust me is, I mean, you know, if

Patricia: 00:01:36

it was myself being in the scheme of the people that I talk to, obviously

Patricia: 00:01:41

I will reconsider things, but this prime, there are examples and examples.

Patricia: 00:01:47

I have been listening to people's stories, for example, that they decided to walk

Patricia: 00:01:52

away from their jobs knowing that the financial impacts with the lifestyles and

Patricia: 00:01:57

basic needs will be at odds with that.

Patricia: 00:02:01

But they chosen to, to be driven by their values and what's best for their

Patricia: 00:02:05

hearts and their soul, which I admired.

Patricia: 00:02:08

I highly admired.

Patricia: 00:02:09

And I equally highly admire the people who are conscious about what they're doing,

Patricia: 00:02:14

and they want to step away from that.

Patricia: 00:02:16

They come to us, they come to principal, and they ask as

Patricia: 00:02:19

well, I'm ready to walk away.

Patricia: 00:02:21

But you know, obviously I'm being mindful of how, what steps I'm

Patricia: 00:02:26

taking in order to do that because I have a family, I have a mortgage.

Patricia: 00:02:31

I have dependence under my care.

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And obviously financing these basic needs is important.

Patricia: 00:02:38

So as soon as there is an opportunity ready, please put me forward

Patricia: 00:02:41

because that will be my next step.

Patricia: 00:02:43

So I equally admire these people, and in the meantime, I keep telling

Patricia: 00:02:46

the same, you know, make sure you find your tribe, even if it's us.

Patricia: 00:02:50

Maybe if you're not acquainted with any tribes with

Patricia: 00:02:53

pro-Palestinian views in activism.

Patricia: 00:02:56

Principle is still for you that go to group where you can always reach

Patricia: 00:03:00

out to us and we can have that chat and, and just remind ourselves that

Patricia: 00:03:04

we are supportive towards each other.

Patricia: 00:03:06

So support, it's my main, main, key piece of advice for someone

Patricia: 00:03:12

transitioning that on the own.

Patricia: 00:03:14

So, yeah.

Serena: 00:03:16

Yes, because there are also people that maybe are not working in this big

Serena: 00:03:21

corporation who are actively participating into the genocide, but they're working

Serena: 00:03:26

in companies where you cannot talk about these topics for whatever reason.

Serena: 00:03:32

And so I think it's important to talk about that.

Serena: 00:03:35

I think it's important also to understand that what is happening outside is

Serena: 00:03:42

having an impact on the inside.

Patricia: 00:03:45

Absolutely.

Patricia: 00:03:46

Absolutely it is.

Patricia: 00:03:47

Yeah.

Patricia: 00:03:48

I agree.

Patricia: 00:03:48

You know, obviously silencing yourself.

Patricia: 00:03:51

It's how, I think it's some of the propaganda that these mainstream

Patricia: 00:03:57

enablers of the war crimes that are happening in Palestine and Gaza, that's

Patricia: 00:04:03

the tactics they want to implement.

Patricia: 00:04:06

Because when you don't talk about it, it's when we forget about it, and

Patricia: 00:04:11

this has been happening since 1947.

Patricia: 00:04:14

All we know in our history books, all we know in our accessible sources

Patricia: 00:04:19

of information, at least here in Europe, let's tell on the United

Patricia: 00:04:23

States, is that, you know, sources of information have been manipulated.

Patricia: 00:04:27

They have been changed.

Patricia: 00:04:28

You know, to go back to what you mentioned, you know, it's really

Patricia: 00:04:31

frustrating to be part of a company that is silencing you, and then you

Patricia: 00:04:36

really have that duty as a human.

Patricia: 00:04:40

A human to really make, um, you know, to, sorry, sorry.

Patricia: 00:04:45

That's really heated.

Patricia: 00:04:46

I, it's really upsetting.

Patricia: 00:04:48

Of course.

Patricia: 00:04:50

Sometimes it's just too much.

Patricia: 00:04:53

It is, yeah.

Patricia: 00:04:54

I agree.

Patricia: 00:04:54

It is, yeah, it is very overwhelming.

Patricia: 00:04:57

Very overwhelming.

Patricia: 00:04:58

And I feel, uh, and I hear these people, you know, and, and I can't imagine what

Patricia: 00:05:06

it's like working in a company that's.

Patricia: 00:05:09

You know, you've been highly active in, in the genocide and you know,

Patricia: 00:05:15

and not having the privilege to say anything because you are fired and you

Patricia: 00:05:20

know, and then your mortgages, your bills, and your dependents are not

Patricia: 00:05:25

ultimately taking care of because of.

Patricia: 00:05:28

Standing in the right side and you know, and my question to you is, VIN,

Patricia: 00:05:32

and I know you have a family, right?

Patricia: 00:05:34

You have your kids?

Patricia: 00:05:35

I believe it's one or two kids that it so far.

Patricia: 00:05:39

Oh, okay.

Patricia: 00:05:40

Okay.

Patricia: 00:05:41

So in the future, oh, okay.

Patricia: 00:05:42

Sorry.

Patricia: 00:05:43

Sorry.

Patricia: 00:05:43

I had a different understanding.

Patricia: 00:05:45

But you know, this is also my question to you.

Patricia: 00:05:47

You know, if I am your daughter, I'll prompt you with this question.

Patricia: 00:05:52

Mom, what have you done about this?

Patricia: 00:05:56

You know, is there anything you have done about this, you

Patricia: 00:05:59

know, back in the present times?

Patricia: 00:06:00

You know, how would you answer to that question?

Serena: 00:06:04

Yeah.

Serena: 00:06:05

This is why I don't want to say to my future daughter I did nothing.

Serena: 00:06:11

Especially because it's so live streamed right now.

Serena: 00:06:16

That is really impossible to say for future generation that we didn't.

Serena: 00:06:22

Knew about that.

Serena: 00:06:24

And this is also linked to my family history because my parents were really

Serena: 00:06:31

active for Palestine since the seventies.

Serena: 00:06:35

And I asked this question to my parents when I was a child and they

Serena: 00:06:40

always said, we protested, we have done, uh, these kind of things.

Serena: 00:06:45

We raise awareness, we had a discussion, et cetera.

Serena: 00:06:50

And.

Serena: 00:06:51

For me, it was comforting to see that it's always possible to do

Serena: 00:06:58

something, even if maybe we don't have the full power to change the

Serena: 00:07:04

situation, but we have the power to change a little bit and maybe talk with

Serena: 00:07:11

someone, maybe raise more awareness.

Serena: 00:07:14

And I think it's equally important, and I don't want to be someone that will

Serena: 00:07:20

say in 10 years, oh, I, I didn't know.

Serena: 00:07:23

I didn't understand.

Serena: 00:07:26

Because in reality it's like saying I didn't care.

Serena: 00:07:30

But actually I care a lot.

Patricia: 00:07:33

Oh yeah.

Patricia: 00:07:34

And thank you for sharing that, Serena.

Patricia: 00:07:36

You know, obviously it's, it's important to, when you raise a

Patricia: 00:07:39

family, how do you live with example?

Patricia: 00:07:42

And I think showing the values as a human.

Patricia: 00:07:46

I think it's very important to raise your family in the right way and,

Patricia: 00:07:51

you know, and that's not something that many people agree with us.

Patricia: 00:07:55

And, and you know, and I feel sorry for these people and you know,

Patricia: 00:07:58

I wanna be able to do the same.

Patricia: 00:08:01

I wanna be able to tell my daughter in the future that this is what mom.

Patricia: 00:08:06

Done in the past and what she keeps doing and you know, and also I

Patricia: 00:08:08

appreciate that you feel that you feel the same way about your parents.

Patricia: 00:08:12

You feel extremely proud to have parents with a compassionate heart and with

Patricia: 00:08:18

human duty to make things right for CCIT and for standing against in obviously

Patricia: 00:08:23

governments and medium people's opinion.

Patricia: 00:08:26

So I think it's highly admirable, you know, and I think that's the sort of seed.

Patricia: 00:08:31

You wanna carry over with your lineage because many people talk about

Patricia: 00:08:35

how you carry your trauma around.

Patricia: 00:08:38

How about these things?

Patricia: 00:08:39

How about the real value in people and humans having that seed throughout our

Serena: 00:08:45

lineage, our history?

Serena: 00:08:47

Yeah, because we always talk about intergenerational trauma, but also we

Serena: 00:08:52

can talk about intergenerational love.

Serena: 00:08:56

Correct?

Serena: 00:08:57

Yeah.

Serena: 00:08:58

And it's equally important.

Serena: 00:09:01

Palestinians are teaching us this every day.

Serena: 00:09:05

That is correct.

Serena: 00:09:06

Yeah.

Patricia: 00:09:07

They are teaching us that every day.

Patricia: 00:09:09

And I think that's, you know, and I think that's ultimately the feeling I

Patricia: 00:09:15

go to bed with and I wake up to, instead of feeling hate for the injustice.

Patricia: 00:09:22

Right now, we can really benefit from spreading that love and from

Patricia: 00:09:27

really understanding that love from them, uh, because they are

Patricia: 00:09:30

ultimately giving that to us.

Patricia: 00:09:32

That's the message they're sending to us outside of those walls in class.

Patricia: 00:09:36

And you know, that worse and in class.

Patricia: 00:09:38

So ultimately, that's what I take myself and will take myself to, to

Patricia: 00:09:42

the last time, till the last day.

Patricia: 00:09:44

So, yeah.

Serena: 00:09:46

I have a more practical question now.

Serena: 00:09:50

But I think it's important to share.

Serena: 00:09:52

So currently you are connecting candidates to companies that are more principled.

Serena: 00:09:59

What are the challenges that you have right now, but also what are you seeing?

Serena: 00:10:04

Meaning there are companies that are looking for these kind of

Serena: 00:10:08

people, or it's still difficult to find these kind of companies.

Patricia: 00:10:14

I would say it's interesting and I think it's a good.

Patricia: 00:10:19

Test, right?

Patricia: 00:10:21

Because traditionally speaking, when you run a recruitment agency, you just have

Patricia: 00:10:25

a wider array of companies to tap into.

Patricia: 00:10:30

But with here, it's very different.

Patricia: 00:10:33

It is very meaningful, obviously.

Patricia: 00:10:35

You know, like if you think about that a hundred percent of companies, you

Patricia: 00:10:39

know, imagine a number in your head and then double it and triple it.

Patricia: 00:10:42

That's the markets you can tap into as a recruiter.

Patricia: 00:10:46

The difference with this is that okay, it requires more time to conduct research,

Patricia: 00:10:52

to conduct some due diligence, some checks, internal checks in the company.

Patricia: 00:10:56

So obviously there is added element of transactional work in order to understand

Patricia: 00:11:02

the companies that you want to work with.

Patricia: 00:11:05

It makes it really meaningful because, you know, looking for the principles

Patricia: 00:11:09

companies, it's a shared success.

Patricia: 00:11:11

You know, these companies that is standing on the right side of humanity, they

Patricia: 00:11:16

are either donating profits to Gaza, they're either founded by Palestinians.

Patricia: 00:11:24

Diaspora Palestinians, or they either really connected to,

Patricia: 00:11:27

to the Palestinian course.

Patricia: 00:11:29

So obviously they stand on that side of the fence with

Patricia: 00:11:31

us and equally our candidates.

Patricia: 00:11:33

And I think when you tap into these conversations with founders,

Patricia: 00:11:36

for example, from my experience, it is my job at Principle to, to

Patricia: 00:11:42

really develop and produced that partnership with founders and CEOs.

Patricia: 00:11:46

Ultimately, but this is the way I start my conversations.

Patricia: 00:11:50

I don't start my conversations from a transactional standpoint.

Patricia: 00:11:54

I say, I am a recruiter and I am going to sort your problems.

Patricia: 00:11:58

I'm going to offer you a staffing solution.

Patricia: 00:12:02

Which is what we also do at Principle.

Patricia: 00:12:04

The other difference is that we are solving a bigger problem

Patricia: 00:12:08

that build staffing problems.

Patricia: 00:12:10

We are aligned in the way that we see what's happening in the world.

Patricia: 00:12:13

We are creating a synergy.

Patricia: 00:12:16

We are creating a synergy by exchanging ideas, by opening up about how we

Patricia: 00:12:21

feel and by creating that safe space, ultimately, and this is what I talked

Patricia: 00:12:26

about earlier, about looking for your tribe, and this is our tribe.

Patricia: 00:12:30

My prospective clients, my partners, you know, they're all my tribe

Patricia: 00:12:35

because they feel as though it's safe and vulnerable to hold these

Patricia: 00:12:38

conversations with me and so do I.

Patricia: 00:12:41

And that's the added value.

Patricia: 00:12:42

And then, you know, this is really what we can do for each other.

Patricia: 00:12:47

This is the synergy, you know, so we can provide you with candidates, you know,

Patricia: 00:12:51

obviously great talents, but guess what?

Patricia: 00:12:55

The conversation and the alignment that we just have in this

Patricia: 00:12:58

values based, they also have it.

Patricia: 00:13:00

So what's better than best?

Patricia: 00:13:02

You know?

Patricia: 00:13:03

So that's really it.

Serena: 00:13:05

Yeah.

Serena: 00:13:07

And I'm really curious about the candidate experience, because I would

Serena: 00:13:11

imagine that going into an interview with a company, knowing that this

Serena: 00:13:17

company is aligned to your values, your principle, it's giving you.

Serena: 00:13:24

So much power to perform well during, uh, the interview.

Serena: 00:13:28

I don't know what is your experience.

Patricia: 00:13:30

No, you are right.

Patricia: 00:13:32

You know that it gives you that extra boost of confidence when

Patricia: 00:13:35

you walk into the interview room.

Patricia: 00:13:38

Ultimately you will expect to be asked questions to assess

Patricia: 00:13:42

your suitability for the role.

Patricia: 00:13:44

And you know, there's no way around it.

Patricia: 00:13:47

You know, you can be supportive of what I believe you cannot be, but you know,

Patricia: 00:13:51

the interview process has to always be very fair, transparent, and equal.

Patricia: 00:13:56

I do agree with you and I think I align with that, you know, because

Patricia: 00:14:00

if I know that, uh, the founder that I'm interviewing with for the role.

Patricia: 00:14:04

Shared my same ideas.

Patricia: 00:14:07

Then, you know, there's already the icebreaker in the conversation,

Patricia: 00:14:11

and this is the advice I give to all the candidates I have met

Patricia: 00:14:15

throughout my 11 years in recruitment.

Patricia: 00:14:17

It's always about putting the icebreaker in place, you know, and I think that's

Patricia: 00:14:23

the best way to perform during your interview, to feel more confident

Patricia: 00:14:26

and more present, and more receptive to provide good quality answers.

Serena: 00:14:33

Do you have any advice for our listeners on how to find

Serena: 00:14:37

something that is more aligned to their values and principles in

Serena: 00:14:42

general, not only for Palestine?

Patricia: 00:14:45

Yeah, absolutely, and I think we often forget about our authenticity.

Patricia: 00:14:52

And I think we have to stick to what makes us real authentic and ourselves

Patricia: 00:15:00

and not another version that you know, so IT of our family, our partner or friends

Patricia: 00:15:06

will expect from us because that's how you end up making the wrong decisions.

Patricia: 00:15:11

Some advice will be very practical and you know, when it is very intuitive

Patricia: 00:15:16

and if there is a place that doesn't feel right for you, you know, it

Patricia: 00:15:20

can be an array of reasons, but not aligned to what you believe or, you

Patricia: 00:15:25

know, they're not inclusive or you're not getting the rewards you deserve

Patricia: 00:15:31

or, or there is some misalignment with the managers, you know, whichever

Patricia: 00:15:35

the reason we always have to keep.

Patricia: 00:15:38

Truth to ourselves and to stay, to take strategic steps to do it.

Patricia: 00:15:42

Not to blow things off the roof because that's easy to do, but to take the steps,

Patricia: 00:15:47

you know, be really strategic about how you want to exit safely an organization in

Patricia: 00:15:54

order to join your next venture, you know?

Patricia: 00:15:56

So I think that's important advice.

Patricia: 00:15:59

I will give people.

Patricia: 00:16:01

Thank you so much,

Serena: 00:16:02

Patricia, for this really meaningful

Patricia: 00:16:04

conversation.

Patricia: 00:16:05

Thank you very much to you Sina, and you know, for offering me the

Patricia: 00:16:08

chance, even setting the space to, to speak the truth, you know?

Patricia: 00:16:12

And it is been a real pleasure, Sina a real, real pleasure and yeah.

Patricia: 00:16:17

Yeah, let's make things better and hopefully this message

Patricia: 00:16:22

gets the right audience.

Serena: 00:16:24

Thank you for listening to this conversation.

Serena: 00:16:26

Please feel free to share it and you can find all the podcast

Serena: 00:16:30

episode on I'm back.work.