Episode 2
Flowing into your true path with Aditi Raghram
In this podcast episode, Serena interviews Aditi Raghuram, an executive leadership and wellbeing coach, to explore the concept of bouncing back from difficult situations and the challenges associated with it. The conversation dives deep into themes such as resilience, self-compassion, and re-defining success and wellbeing, both personally and professionally.
Transcript
So a river starts as a stream.
Speaker:There's no set path, but it slowly builds momentum and it creates its own path
Speaker:wherever it goes, but it's still flowing.
Speaker:So for me, when I think about coming back from something difficult, I would
Speaker:really say don't think about it in terms of bouncing back, but think about in
Speaker:terms of flowing into your true path.
Speaker:US
Speaker:today we have a really special guest, Aditi Raghuram, executive leadership
Speaker:coach and wellbeing coach, helping leaders navigate professional challenges
Speaker:with clarity, compassion, and courage.
Speaker:Thank you so much, Aditi, for being here with us.
Speaker:I'm really, really happy for this conversation and I want
Speaker:to start with one question.
Speaker:What does it mean I'm back for you?
Speaker:That is a great question.
Speaker:What it means for me personally is I am back on a part that
Speaker:aligns with who I really am.
Speaker:I spent 20, 22 years in academia.
Speaker:I spent all those years being in situations and environments that didn't
Speaker:really make me feel like I was flowing through life more like I was fighting
Speaker:through it for different reasons.
Speaker:I loved my job, but.
Speaker:I think for me, being back means being back in myself, being aligned
Speaker:with who I am, and having the clarity and the wisdom and the
Speaker:courage to walk the path of who I am.
Speaker:That's what it means.
Speaker:You said the courage, the wisdom and clarity.
Speaker:These are three big, big words.
Speaker:I'm wondering how can we find them?
Speaker:Especially when we are dealing with personal challenges or a work
Speaker:environment that is not so welcoming,
Speaker:I don't think we have to find them.
Speaker:I think we already have everything we need.
Speaker:And what I mean by that is we talk about resilience as you know, being
Speaker:stronger than your circumstances, but to me it's not about being
Speaker:stronger than your circumstances.
Speaker:It's being present in the circumstances to see what wisdom is
Speaker:revealed from those moments for you.
Speaker:So in my own experience, e courage, clarity, wisdom, I had all of those
Speaker:things just like all of us do.
Speaker:I just had to be quiet enough and present enough to listen to that inner
Speaker:our wisdom, to listen to the desire.
Speaker:To be aligned with what I want to be.
Speaker:And when you listen to that and you believe in it, you automatically
Speaker:have the courage to walk that path.
Speaker:What makes so difficult to listen to that?
Speaker:Great question.
Speaker:Again, I think it's some part internal, but a lot of it is external.
Speaker:We are all raised in different cultures in different environments.
Speaker:We've been told different things about what it means to be.
Speaker:Human, what it means to be a successful human right.
Speaker:And depending on how far back that culture goes, it can be thousands of years
Speaker:of, you know, wisdom that's passed on.
Speaker:And I think there's a lot of that that's listening to the external world,
Speaker:that's listening to what people say you should be doing right from school.
Speaker:You know, or maybe even younger people will start looking at little children
Speaker:and say, oh, you talk so well, you debate so well you should be a lawyer.
Speaker:And now that seed is planted in my head, right?
Speaker:And so as we grow, as we meet new people, we go to school, we go to
Speaker:college, whatever people at the workplace, this is how it should be.
Speaker:That's how it should be.
Speaker:And so we start to make that our own.
Speaker:We are listening to a lot of the external noise.
Speaker:Regardless of what it is we want or what is aligned with who we are.
Speaker:And the second thing I think, is just the way the system is set up.
Speaker:I think for many, many of us, we don't have the luxury of saying,
Speaker:I'm not interested in this.
Speaker:You know, this field or in tech or in science.
Speaker:I wanna go be a writer.
Speaker:But in reality, that's not necessarily possible for.
Speaker:Most of us, because we're not privileged enough to be able to say, okay, I don't
Speaker:have to care about, you know, financing myself or, you know, being comfortable.
Speaker:I'm just gonna go be a writer.
Speaker:Most of us don't have that privilege.
Speaker:So I think the combination of the system and then what the system makes people
Speaker:believe is the way to success, and then we start to internalize that because nobody
Speaker:wants to, you know, be the odd one out.
Speaker:It's very difficult for us to say, no, I believe in this and I'm going to follow
Speaker:this dream, or I'm gonna follow this path.
Speaker:When the whole world around you is saying, no, you're wrong.
Speaker:You have to be something else.
Speaker:You have to do something else.
Speaker:I think that's where the noise comes in and then we get stuck
Speaker:in the automatic, you know, daily life in the red race or whatever.
Speaker:Just doing and doing and doing.
Speaker:But we don't spend enough time in the feeling space.
Speaker:We don't spend enough time in the thinking space.
Speaker:We're just doing.
Speaker:We're not really thinking about what we're doing.
Speaker:We're just doing, and I think that's where we start to dull the wisdom,
Speaker:the voices in our own capacity,
Speaker:and listening to a lot of people who are coming back to work after
Speaker:a life, life-changing experience.
Speaker:I'm noticing that it's really hard for them to redefine success.
Speaker:Because success for society, at least in Europe, is not being able to restart
Speaker:or be aligned with yourself or have the courage to put you outside there
Speaker:again after maybe a dramatic experience.
Speaker:Success is really something else.
Speaker:It's about achievement, results, money, and these kind of things.
Speaker:So what is your advice for people I. That are in a moment of their life where
Speaker:they want to prove to themself that they are still capable of, but what they
Speaker:are capable of is different from the usual definition of success, et cetera.
Speaker:I would say follow the data to me coming back in itself is success.
Speaker:The fact that you.
Speaker:Want to grow, that you want to do something more, that you want
Speaker:to continue on this journey.
Speaker:That itself is a win, in my opinion, but for those who understandably
Speaker:so, it's hard to believe that I'm a success because I came back to work.
Speaker:It's more, well, when I compare myself to other people, I'm not
Speaker:really doing everything that they're doing, and so we miss that context.
Speaker:My advice would be to follow the data.
Speaker:Have you done hard things before?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Everyone has done hard things before.
Speaker:So to really gather that data about yourself, what have I done before that was
Speaker:challenging, that I was able to overcome.
Speaker:Okay, so I can do that again.
Speaker:And this is the first step for me.
Speaker:So I'm going to follow this, you know, continue on this path and I
Speaker:will be able to do hard things again.
Speaker:So just having that unshakable faith in yourself that no matter
Speaker:what, you will get to where you want to be by following the data.
Speaker:The second thing would be to really, really ask yourself,
Speaker:what is the life I wanna live?
Speaker:So, you know, this is a typical question.
Speaker:I'm sure you've heard it as well.
Speaker:If you have just a few days to live and you look back on your life.
Speaker:What kind of life would you have wanted to live?
Speaker:And when you really get into that question and look back and ask yourself, what
Speaker:is the kind of life I want to live?
Speaker:Most people will not tell you, oh, I wanted to be the, you know,
Speaker:CEO of such and such company.
Speaker:You know, most people will tell you, I wanna live a life that is rich with
Speaker:experiences with loved ones around me.
Speaker:I wanna live a life that I can turn back and say, I did something meaningful, or.
Speaker:I had fun or you know, whatever it is, right?
Speaker:Nobody's gonna say, oh, I want to be a UX UI designer at whatever.
Speaker:Like, that's what I wanna look back on my life and say I want it to be.
Speaker:When you put distance between yourself and this career identity and really
Speaker:ask yourself that question, what kind of life do I want to live?
Speaker:It helps you rethink.
Speaker:This idea that success is entirely tied to your performance at work, and then people
Speaker:start to become more and more aligned with what they truly want from their lives.
Speaker:This is so beautiful and really resonating with me.
Speaker:When you were talking, I was imagining myself answering this question
Speaker:and I realized that my answer was.
Speaker:Not connected at all with a role or a company or money, et cetera.
Speaker:You are really passionate about the concept of wellbeing and there is the
Speaker:personal wellbeing and the corporate wellbeing or the wellbeing of a company.
Speaker:I am wondering if we need to redefine also what means wellbeing for us when we
Speaker:are dealing with a coming back situation.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:What you're asking is how do I know if I am doing well emotionally,
Speaker:mentally, when I am returning to work?
Speaker:That's again.
Speaker:What is your data?
Speaker:I am a big fan of data collection, so when I say what is your data,
Speaker:whether you're journaling or whether you're, you know, if you look back,
Speaker:say last month, I wasn't able to, for someone who's really struggling.
Speaker:Say for example, last month, I was not able to wake up and do my daily stuff.
Speaker:I couldn't take a shower.
Speaker:I couldn't go out and take a walk, and I was just at home.
Speaker:I was isolated.
Speaker:I was just struggling this month.
Speaker:I've been out three, four times a month.
Speaker:Baby steps, right?
Speaker:So when you really give yourself that pause to ask yourself, are you making
Speaker:progress in the direction that you want to make progress in that is wellbeing,
Speaker:those are indicators of wellbeing, right?
Speaker:So you really might not feel a hundred percent.
Speaker:What is the evidence you have that you're getting better?
Speaker:And that's what we need to look for.
Speaker:The signs.
Speaker:Do you feel like you wanna go meet people today?
Speaker:Do you feel like when you're at work, do you feel like a task that
Speaker:was taking you two hours maybe takes you now an hour and a half?
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:So when you're able to pay attention to the little movements,
Speaker:you'll see a big difference and that will in turn, motivate you.
Speaker:It's any progress, right?
Speaker:So let's say you're learning to draw and you start initially with just simple
Speaker:sketches and you don't know anything about lighting or you know, whatever.
Speaker:When you start, you just, you're made to just draw squares and triangles
Speaker:and you're asked to shade, and that gets really boring and frustrating.
Speaker:But a month later when you can pick something up, maybe
Speaker:you wanna draw this teacup.
Speaker:Instead of just, you know, triangles and squares and you draw the teacup,
Speaker:you realize, oh, I can actually make a teacup look like a real teacup.
Speaker:So it's a little bit of progress, and that motivates you.
Speaker:You're like, I can draw a teacup now.
Speaker:You're not gonna resent the hard work that you put in the previous
Speaker:month to just do boring stuff, right?
Speaker:So consistency.
Speaker:Watching for those little moments of growth and acknowledging
Speaker:yourself for that growth.
Speaker:I think oftentimes what happens is we say, well, what's the big deal?
Speaker:I just did, okay.
Speaker:This is the bare minimum.
Speaker:You know, I should be able to do this.
Speaker:I'm a functioning adult, but our brain don't work like that.
Speaker:We have reward centers in our brains that.
Speaker:Actually don't respond to other people's encouragement as much as it responds
Speaker:to your own encouragement and reward.
Speaker:So when you can look at your slow progress, those small wins and say, I
Speaker:did it, that motivates you to keep going.
Speaker:So it's really about self-compassion, consistency,
Speaker:and accountability to yourself.
Speaker:Self-compassion is a word that is really hard for me, and the reason
Speaker:is that of course, it's hard for me to have self-compassion for myself,
Speaker:especially when I think that I made the wrong decision that led
Speaker:me to something not so good for me.
Speaker:So I'm wondering.
Speaker:How can you build or rebuild your self-compassion in a moment that
Speaker:is maybe physically, emotionally, psychologically challenging for you?
Speaker:I think our understanding of self-compassion might be.
Speaker:Different for everyone, right?
Speaker:If you look at it from the actual construct, the way it was developed
Speaker:in psychology, self-compassion has multiple components, and one of those
Speaker:components is accountability, right?
Speaker:The other one is kindness, and the third is mindfulness.
Speaker:So you're gonna be mindful.
Speaker:For example, I did something, I made a mistake.
Speaker:It has bad consequences.
Speaker:Okay, I am mindful and present in that moment, and I say, I made this mistake.
Speaker:I made the decision with all the information I had,
Speaker:but the mistake was made.
Speaker:And the kindness comes in where you say, all right, we are all human.
Speaker:We make mistakes.
Speaker:And the third part, which is accountability, says,
Speaker:what can I learn from this?
Speaker:So I can make a better decision the next time, right?
Speaker:What we do instead is we put ourselves into that, not really focusing on the
Speaker:issue or the mistake we're focusing on.
Speaker:I made the mistake, and that's where we get caught up.
Speaker:So when you say, okay, a mistake was made, I did it with the best knowledge,
Speaker:information I had in this moment.
Speaker:What can I learn from this?
Speaker:Whom can I talk to?
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:So reach out to your resources and the accountability of saying, alright, next
Speaker:time, I need to keep these things in mind so I don't repeat the mistake.
Speaker:Because at the end of the day, we're all making mistakes.
Speaker:The most successful people are making mistakes.
Speaker:Everybody's making this.
Speaker:That is a fundamental part of being human, that we're never going to be perfect.
Speaker:So when you think about it that way, it's a little bit easier for you to put
Speaker:distance between yourself and the issue.
Speaker:Acknowledge that it is hard for you in this moment.
Speaker:It is hard.
Speaker:I feel bad.
Speaker:I feel uncomfortable that I made this mistake.
Speaker:It was not okay.
Speaker:You acknowledge that.
Speaker:Let it pass, and then you go to the kindness and the accountability part.
Speaker:Maybe you try that and tell me sometime if it works for you.
Speaker:Yeah, I need to work on that, especially on the kindness part, because it's really
Speaker:hard for me to be kind towards myself.
Speaker:I think most of us struggle with this.
Speaker:We have different standards for other people and different
Speaker:standards for ourselves.
Speaker:And as much as I understand self-compassion, practicing it in
Speaker:the moment for anyone is really hard.
Speaker:But the more you do it, the easier it gets, right?
Speaker:So I'll give you an example.
Speaker:I just had a real, I have a 13-year-old said he had put the car
Speaker:keys in a certain place just today.
Speaker:He was insistent that it was there, and I said, no, it isn't.
Speaker:And we searched everywhere and he had to go somewhere.
Speaker:And I gave him the absolute shelling of his life.
Speaker:I've never been so mad because it's my car keys.
Speaker:And anyway, I found a spare key.
Speaker:He went and then came back, and then we realized the keys were in the car
Speaker:the whole time, and the car was locked.
Speaker:In that moment, I felt so terrible for giving him that kind of a scolding.
Speaker:I still feel it.
Speaker:I can feel the shame, the guilt.
Speaker:I can feel all of these feelings coming up in me and just regretting every
Speaker:bit of that scolding, and then to have to turn back to him and apologize.
Speaker:And say, I'm so sorry.
Speaker:And he's a 13-year-old, so you can imagine, right?
Speaker:So he's just gonna be like, you said all of this to me for
Speaker:something that wasn't even my fault.
Speaker:You know, it's hard to do.
Speaker:So I was sitting in that shame and guilt for long time.
Speaker:Then I had to tell myself, all right, here's the story behind it.
Speaker:He actually said that he put the keys in the drawer.
Speaker:He was convinced.
Speaker:So you were operating on that information had he said, I
Speaker:don't know where the keys are.
Speaker:I didn't bring them with me.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:That he did say that.
Speaker:So you were operating on that information and that's what you did.
Speaker:Hard moment parenting.
Speaker:Lesson learned.
Speaker:How do you fix it?
Speaker:You fix it by apologizing to him knowing that he's gonna hold it
Speaker:over your head for a long time,
Speaker:but you gotta do it anyway, right?
Speaker:Because that's you taking accountability for something you shouldn't have done.
Speaker:That's just how it works.
Speaker:I still feel bad, but we've crossed that bridge now, so that's how it works.
Speaker:We're, we're all very, very harsh on ourselves for.
Speaker:Especially things that are meaningful to us
Speaker:and people that are meaningful to us
Speaker:and people that are meaningful to us.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:I'm wondering if us taking the accountability and be more kind towards
Speaker:ourself and be more mindful can have also a positive impact on the ones around us.
Speaker:The workplace, et cetera.
Speaker:Because from the example that you shared, I'm sure that you have learned
Speaker:a lot, but also your son learned a lot from this situation and you were role
Speaker:modeling a behavior that can be helpful for him later in his life, I'm sure.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:I think there are so many examples that I could share of this actually playing out.
Speaker:Another example, A time when it was his first exam of the school year,
Speaker:a couple years ago, he woke up late.
Speaker:He never does that.
Speaker:And then I had to drop him to school.
Speaker:He missed the school bus.
Speaker:And so he was really upset.
Speaker:He thought I was going to be really upset.
Speaker:And then when he came back from school, he said, why didn't you scream at me?
Speaker:Why didn't you punish me?
Speaker:Or I said, I don't do that.
Speaker:Did you feel bad about waking up late?
Speaker:Yes, I did.
Speaker:Are you gonna wake up late ever again?
Speaker:Um, never.
Speaker:I said, well, the point is you learned your lesson, so why should I make you
Speaker:feel worse than you're already feeling?
Speaker:So that went away.
Speaker:A week later, he was playing badminton with his friends.
Speaker:A little child stole his sports gear and he looked for it everywhere.
Speaker:He asked the child.
Speaker:The child said, no.
Speaker:Then he asked the elder brother of the child.
Speaker:The brother found it and he gave it back to him.
Speaker:So I asked him, I said, what did you say to that child who stole your stuff?
Speaker:He said, well, I didn't say anything to him.
Speaker:His brother was already giving him a really hard time badminton.
Speaker:Coach was screaming at him.
Speaker:He is already having a hard time.
Speaker:I got my equipment back, so that's all I wanted.
Speaker:I don't need to shout at him for that.
Speaker:That was a moment for me, 11 years old, and he already had this wisdom.
Speaker:So that was a big moment for me.
Speaker:To see how this plays out in action.
Speaker:How do you know it spreads to other people?
Speaker:Of course, this is the example of a child, but this is also something
Speaker:that you can see in adults.
Speaker:When you practice self-compassion, you're also able to be more
Speaker:compassionate with other people in very high stake situations.
Speaker:You can either make or break a deal at a very senior level with just.
Speaker:This kind of compassionate interaction, right?
Speaker:Communication.
Speaker:So when you have that for yourself, you're more likely to
Speaker:be that way with other people too.
Speaker:What I have experienced in my life is in toxic work environments.
Speaker:People tend to become more toxic somehow, but of course it's not for everyone.
Speaker:So I'm also experienced that even in the most toxic environment and situation,
Speaker:you can always find people that are behaving or handling themselves.
Speaker:In a different way.
Speaker:And of course these were the people that I'm still in contact with that
Speaker:helped me survive mobbing and a lot of bad stuff that happened to me.
Speaker:So what can you say to a person that is dealing with a toxic
Speaker:situation to nourish or nurture?
Speaker:Not the toxic side, but the side that is more linked to
Speaker:kindness, compassion, et cetera,
Speaker:is rooted in self-awareness, self knowledge, knowing who you are and
Speaker:what kind of person you'd like to be.
Speaker:That really keeps you.
Speaker:In a place where you are acting from your values.
Speaker:So let's take you for example, you're one of the kindest, most compassionate
Speaker:people that I've ever met, and you went through toxic environments
Speaker:for a long time, toxic situations.
Speaker:So what made you not turn into one of those people?
Speaker:For me it was the fact that I didn't want to become like them.
Speaker:I was really scared to become like them all in name of success
Speaker:promotion, political internal games, and it was really scary for me.
Speaker:I don't know how to explain with another word, but I remember clearly when I left
Speaker:that toxic work environment, I wrote an email to everyone, a goodbye email.
Speaker:I wrote, thank you for the people who talk me a lot of positive things, but also
Speaker:to the people who talk me to not become the person that I don't want to become.
Speaker:After many, many years, I still have people coming to my dms on
Speaker:LinkedIn saying that this phrase really resonated with them.
Speaker:Maybe after five years.
Speaker:This is so amazing for me because it was really true for me.
Speaker:I was so scared.
Speaker:I was more scared of distant of the mob being bullying and all the other things,
Speaker:and that's exactly it, right?
Speaker:Your values are so strongly rooted in you that no matter what
Speaker:is presented in front of you.
Speaker:You're following your value.
Speaker:So the way I like to think about is sort of an internal GPS, right?
Speaker:So when you put your address in the GPS, it's taking you to where you want to go.
Speaker:You're not gonna take somebody else's GPS and try to follow, you know, what
Speaker:they've put in to go where you want to go.
Speaker:It's gonna take you somewhere else.
Speaker:So really that knowledge of what kind of life, what kind of person do I want to be?
Speaker:That will lead you what kind of life you wanna live.
Speaker:That's your internal GPS.
Speaker:And the stronger that is, the less likely you are to stray from that path and
Speaker:you know, be a different person, right?
Speaker:So if your value is so tied to success, business, money, performance,
Speaker:and that's where you get your self worth as a human being from.
Speaker:You're more likely to end up chasing that at the cost of
Speaker:other people or any other thing.
Speaker:But when you have a clearly defined idea of what kind of person you want
Speaker:to be and what your values are, you follow that and that will keep you
Speaker:from strain into the toxic side.
Speaker:The system is pretty oppressive.
Speaker:I have to say, so even with the toxic people, someone's above them putting
Speaker:pressure on them, which is why they're putting pressure on somebody below them.
Speaker:So it really is very difficult to stay rooted in your values unless you're very
Speaker:clear about what they are and how you're going to take yourself out of situations
Speaker:that do not align with your values.
Speaker:You are also really passionate about the concept of bouncing back.
Speaker:And I'm wondering, how can you bounce back when you are feeling a
Speaker:little bit broken for the situation?
Speaker:I don't really like the term bounce back To me, the term bounce back
Speaker:feels a little aggressive for me.
Speaker:When I think about finding your path.
Speaker:Again, I think about it in terms of flow like a river.
Speaker:So a river starts as a stream.
Speaker:There's no set path, but it slowly builds momentum and it creates its own path
Speaker:wherever it goes, but it's still flowing.
Speaker:So for me, when I think about coming back from something difficult, I would
Speaker:really say don't think about it in terms of bouncing back, but think about in
Speaker:terms of flowing into your true path.
Speaker:Does that answer your question more or less?
Speaker:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker:And we know that rivers can be really calm and really not
Speaker:calm, going fast and stormy.
Speaker:So what was challenging for me going back was I felt that I was not moving
Speaker:like the river super calm stagnation was super hard for me to acknowledge.
Speaker:That was only one part of the journey of the river.
Speaker:And then usually after a moment of technication, you
Speaker:have a moment of Victor Mo.
Speaker:So having to deal with both was the really difficult for me.
Speaker:Any suggestion or advice for that?
Speaker:Trust your inner compass.
Speaker:Trust your wisdom.
Speaker:Trust your body and start to notice the shifts.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:I have a long story of my own coming back, but when I crashed,
Speaker:completely crashed rock bottom.
Speaker:It was forced.
Speaker:It wasn't something I expected or was waiting for.
Speaker:I completely crashed and I had to come back.
Speaker:I realized there's no way I was bouncing back.
Speaker:I was not physically, mentally, emotionally capable of that, and so I had
Speaker:to redefine for myself in that moment, what does coming back look like for me?
Speaker:And one of the scariest things was that I didn't know the path.
Speaker:I didn't know what it was going to be.
Speaker:I just knew that coming back for me meant taking one day at a time.
Speaker:I. Doing something each day.
Speaker:That moved me a little bit closer to growth, and as long as I was doing that
Speaker:every day, the path would open up for me.
Speaker:I just had to believe that I was going to do it, that I was going
Speaker:to walk this path, and that's what got me out of that rock bottom.
Speaker:I did initially try to bounce back.
Speaker:So there's no denying that.
Speaker:But when I realized that my mind, my body, my energy, nothing in my life was
Speaker:allowing me to bounce back, that was a really tough moment of frustration and
Speaker:I had to sit with that frustration and I had to accept, this is where you are and
Speaker:this is what your capacity is right now.
Speaker:That is all you can wish for it to be different.
Speaker:By wishing for that to be different, you're also expending the very
Speaker:little energy you have on wishing for something that cannot happen.
Speaker:So I think a big piece of that is just acceptance, where you accept,
Speaker:this is where I am, and then you start to work towards this belief
Speaker:that wherever I am is not important, I can be where I want to be.
Speaker:With consistency.
Speaker:With patience.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And that's what I mean when I say you don't have to be
Speaker:stronger than your circumstances.
Speaker:You cannot.
Speaker:You just have to be present in them to offer the wisdom and the
Speaker:learnings from those circumstances.
Speaker:Thank you so much for this conversation.
Speaker:It was really beautiful, eyeopening and heartwarming.
Speaker:Thank you for having me.
Speaker:Always.
Speaker:Such a pleasure to speak.
Speaker:You
Speaker:thank you for listening to this conversation, and please feel
Speaker:free to share it with people who needs to hear those words.
Speaker:You can find more episode about the podcast on Spotify, apple Music, or wvu.
Speaker:I'm back.
Speaker:Do work.
